Oxfordshire County Council : Social Care Provider Engagement

Share Oxfordshire County Council : Social Care Provider Engagement on Facebook Share Oxfordshire County Council : Social Care Provider Engagement on Twitter Share Oxfordshire County Council : Social Care Provider Engagement on Linkedin Email Oxfordshire County Council : Social Care Provider Engagement link

Welcome to the new Oxfordshire County Council Social Care Engagement Hub.

This is a place for us to share information, consult and co-produce with you and above all discuss what we can all do to improve the lives of the residents of Oxfordshire.

As we develop this space you will find polls, news items, consultations and discussion boards so please make use of it and so please...

Please be sure to leave your comments in the guestbook.

Welcome to the new Oxfordshire County Council Social Care Engagement Hub.

This is a place for us to share information, consult and co-produce with you and above all discuss what we can all do to improve the lives of the residents of Oxfordshire.

As we develop this space you will find polls, news items, consultations and discussion boards so please make use of it and so please...

Please be sure to leave your comments in the guestbook.

Questions to Oxfordshire County Council

Is there anything you would like to ask OCC? If you do, ask away and we'll get back to you as soon as we can...

You need to be signed in to add your question.

  • Share The Uplift 2024-25 Uplift consultation it asks what is your average hourly rate. However, it only allows a responder to enter one figure and it does not specify a job role. Many care providers have a large number of staff spread across a range of professions/ roles (RN’s, OT’s, Physio’s, carers, senior carers, RMs etc). Averaging a rate across the whole team would be irrelevant. The relevant figure should be that of the lowest paid staff who will be most affected by the increase in the minimum wage. Average rates, as indicated by SfC and quoted elsewhere, may include weekends, nights, bank holidays. If the Council wants to understand the impact of NMW increase, it will need to pay attention to not just the bottom-most rate, but the concertina impact it will have. OACP on Facebook Share The Uplift 2024-25 Uplift consultation it asks what is your average hourly rate. However, it only allows a responder to enter one figure and it does not specify a job role. Many care providers have a large number of staff spread across a range of professions/ roles (RN’s, OT’s, Physio’s, carers, senior carers, RMs etc). Averaging a rate across the whole team would be irrelevant. The relevant figure should be that of the lowest paid staff who will be most affected by the increase in the minimum wage. Average rates, as indicated by SfC and quoted elsewhere, may include weekends, nights, bank holidays. If the Council wants to understand the impact of NMW increase, it will need to pay attention to not just the bottom-most rate, but the concertina impact it will have. OACP on Twitter Share The Uplift 2024-25 Uplift consultation it asks what is your average hourly rate. However, it only allows a responder to enter one figure and it does not specify a job role. Many care providers have a large number of staff spread across a range of professions/ roles (RN’s, OT’s, Physio’s, carers, senior carers, RMs etc). Averaging a rate across the whole team would be irrelevant. The relevant figure should be that of the lowest paid staff who will be most affected by the increase in the minimum wage. Average rates, as indicated by SfC and quoted elsewhere, may include weekends, nights, bank holidays. If the Council wants to understand the impact of NMW increase, it will need to pay attention to not just the bottom-most rate, but the concertina impact it will have. OACP on Linkedin Email The Uplift 2024-25 Uplift consultation it asks what is your average hourly rate. However, it only allows a responder to enter one figure and it does not specify a job role. Many care providers have a large number of staff spread across a range of professions/ roles (RN’s, OT’s, Physio’s, carers, senior carers, RMs etc). Averaging a rate across the whole team would be irrelevant. The relevant figure should be that of the lowest paid staff who will be most affected by the increase in the minimum wage. Average rates, as indicated by SfC and quoted elsewhere, may include weekends, nights, bank holidays. If the Council wants to understand the impact of NMW increase, it will need to pay attention to not just the bottom-most rate, but the concertina impact it will have. OACP link

    The Uplift 2024-25 Uplift consultation it asks what is your average hourly rate. However, it only allows a responder to enter one figure and it does not specify a job role. Many care providers have a large number of staff spread across a range of professions/ roles (RN’s, OT’s, Physio’s, carers, senior carers, RMs etc). Averaging a rate across the whole team would be irrelevant. The relevant figure should be that of the lowest paid staff who will be most affected by the increase in the minimum wage. Average rates, as indicated by SfC and quoted elsewhere, may include weekends, nights, bank holidays. If the Council wants to understand the impact of NMW increase, it will need to pay attention to not just the bottom-most rate, but the concertina impact it will have. OACP

    OACP asked about 1 year ago

    Thank you for this input, we're still tweaking the system to allow us to effectively gather data like this but I want to assure you that we are not looking at the lowest figures in isolation. Please use the comments section under question 10 if you would like to add nuance to your answers and we will take this constructive feedback on board for future surveys.

  • Share This is an Uplift 2024-25 Consultation reply from Oxfordshire Association of Care Providers The adult social care sector remains under huge pressure to deliver essential services in County. Whilst the opportunity for international recruitment has assuaged workforce challenges to an extent, the incoming tightening of immigration rules by Government and the current tightened evidence requirements by UKVI mean that it will likely be harder to recruit workforce from overseas in the future. Skills for Care report that at least 2,700 social care posts are vacant in Oxfordshire (likely to be an underestimate), indicating that the domestic labour market is not deep enough to equip local providers with the skilled workforce they require. The connected impact is delayed hospital discharge and residents using increasing amounts of primary and acute care through lack of social care provision. Skills for Care also report that the current average hourly rates for job roles are: - £11.72 across all services - £12.25 for care homes with nursing - £11.38 for residential (non-nursing) care homes - £10.72 for direct care - £10.56 for care worker - £10.32 for support and outreach https://www.skillsforcare.org.uk/Adult-Social-Care-Workforce-Data/Workforce-intelligence/publications/local-information/My-local-area.aspx In contrast, the National Minimum Wage will rise by 9.8% in April 2024 to £11.44 for those aged 21 and over. https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates In their latest release (20 December 2023), the Office for National Statistics report that although the Consumer Price Index 12-month rate has fallen, business suppliers are continuing to raise prices to make up for losses over the year. The current change over 12 months is 4.2%; a significant inflation rate to absorb. https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices For individual providers and specific parts of the sector: - Overall price of food and non-alcoholic beverages rose by around 27% over the two years between November 2021 and November 2023. This compares with a rise of around 9% over the ten years between November 2011 and November 2021: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#timeseries - Motor fuel prices fell 10.6% in the year to November 2023. Average fuel prices in UK are at 146.69p, but remain at an historic high: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/fuel-watch/ We also refer to the Local Government Finance Policy Statement 2024-2025, which states that: - Local authorities will see an increase in baseline funding levels (BFLs) and compensation grant as if both business rating multipliers had increased by CPI. - The Autumn Statement said that the small business rating multiplier will be frozen at 49.9p, and the standard business rating multiplier will increase to 54.6p in line with September 2022 to September 2023 change in CPI. Coupled with Council Tax Referendum Principles of a core council tax referendum limit for top tier local authorities of up to 3%, and an an adult social care precept of 2% for all authorities responsible for adult social care services, we believe there is adequate funding to support providers with at least an inflation equalling increase. Including funding announced at the 2022 Autumn Statement, additional grant resources for social care in 2024-25 will therefore be: - an additional £692 million will be distributed to local authorities through the Social Care Grant for adult and children’s social care. This will bring the overall size of the Social Care Grant to £4,544 million. - an additional £200 million will be distributed in 2024 to 2025 through the Discharge Fund to support timely and safe discharge from hospital into the community by reducing the number of people delayed in hospital awaiting social care bringing the overall size of the local authority component of the Discharge Fund to £500 million. The Discharge Fund will be in addition to the existing improved Better Care Fund, for which the quantum of £2,140 million and the distribution will remain the same as in 2023-24. £1,050 million in 2024 to 2025 will be distributed for adult social care through the Market Sustainability and Improvement Fund (MSIF), which continues to include £162 million per year of Fair Cost of Care funding. It also includes £205 million MSIF - Workforce Funding, a 2-year fund announced in July 2023 which will be rolled into the existing MSIF. In total, the combined MSIF and MSIF Workforce Fund are worth £123 million more than in 2023 to 2024. We ask that the Council respects contractual arrangements for inflationary uplifts. We also ask that that the funding available is used to support the adult social care market recognising that there are corners of provision which are more vulnerable than others. In particular we have concerns about supported living services and day time support services, which require particular attention and financial support. on Facebook Share This is an Uplift 2024-25 Consultation reply from Oxfordshire Association of Care Providers The adult social care sector remains under huge pressure to deliver essential services in County. Whilst the opportunity for international recruitment has assuaged workforce challenges to an extent, the incoming tightening of immigration rules by Government and the current tightened evidence requirements by UKVI mean that it will likely be harder to recruit workforce from overseas in the future. Skills for Care report that at least 2,700 social care posts are vacant in Oxfordshire (likely to be an underestimate), indicating that the domestic labour market is not deep enough to equip local providers with the skilled workforce they require. The connected impact is delayed hospital discharge and residents using increasing amounts of primary and acute care through lack of social care provision. Skills for Care also report that the current average hourly rates for job roles are: - £11.72 across all services - £12.25 for care homes with nursing - £11.38 for residential (non-nursing) care homes - £10.72 for direct care - £10.56 for care worker - £10.32 for support and outreach https://www.skillsforcare.org.uk/Adult-Social-Care-Workforce-Data/Workforce-intelligence/publications/local-information/My-local-area.aspx In contrast, the National Minimum Wage will rise by 9.8% in April 2024 to £11.44 for those aged 21 and over. https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates In their latest release (20 December 2023), the Office for National Statistics report that although the Consumer Price Index 12-month rate has fallen, business suppliers are continuing to raise prices to make up for losses over the year. The current change over 12 months is 4.2%; a significant inflation rate to absorb. https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices For individual providers and specific parts of the sector: - Overall price of food and non-alcoholic beverages rose by around 27% over the two years between November 2021 and November 2023. This compares with a rise of around 9% over the ten years between November 2011 and November 2021: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#timeseries - Motor fuel prices fell 10.6% in the year to November 2023. Average fuel prices in UK are at 146.69p, but remain at an historic high: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/fuel-watch/ We also refer to the Local Government Finance Policy Statement 2024-2025, which states that: - Local authorities will see an increase in baseline funding levels (BFLs) and compensation grant as if both business rating multipliers had increased by CPI. - The Autumn Statement said that the small business rating multiplier will be frozen at 49.9p, and the standard business rating multiplier will increase to 54.6p in line with September 2022 to September 2023 change in CPI. Coupled with Council Tax Referendum Principles of a core council tax referendum limit for top tier local authorities of up to 3%, and an an adult social care precept of 2% for all authorities responsible for adult social care services, we believe there is adequate funding to support providers with at least an inflation equalling increase. Including funding announced at the 2022 Autumn Statement, additional grant resources for social care in 2024-25 will therefore be: - an additional £692 million will be distributed to local authorities through the Social Care Grant for adult and children’s social care. This will bring the overall size of the Social Care Grant to £4,544 million. - an additional £200 million will be distributed in 2024 to 2025 through the Discharge Fund to support timely and safe discharge from hospital into the community by reducing the number of people delayed in hospital awaiting social care bringing the overall size of the local authority component of the Discharge Fund to £500 million. The Discharge Fund will be in addition to the existing improved Better Care Fund, for which the quantum of £2,140 million and the distribution will remain the same as in 2023-24. £1,050 million in 2024 to 2025 will be distributed for adult social care through the Market Sustainability and Improvement Fund (MSIF), which continues to include £162 million per year of Fair Cost of Care funding. It also includes £205 million MSIF - Workforce Funding, a 2-year fund announced in July 2023 which will be rolled into the existing MSIF. In total, the combined MSIF and MSIF Workforce Fund are worth £123 million more than in 2023 to 2024. We ask that the Council respects contractual arrangements for inflationary uplifts. We also ask that that the funding available is used to support the adult social care market recognising that there are corners of provision which are more vulnerable than others. In particular we have concerns about supported living services and day time support services, which require particular attention and financial support. on Twitter Share This is an Uplift 2024-25 Consultation reply from Oxfordshire Association of Care Providers The adult social care sector remains under huge pressure to deliver essential services in County. Whilst the opportunity for international recruitment has assuaged workforce challenges to an extent, the incoming tightening of immigration rules by Government and the current tightened evidence requirements by UKVI mean that it will likely be harder to recruit workforce from overseas in the future. Skills for Care report that at least 2,700 social care posts are vacant in Oxfordshire (likely to be an underestimate), indicating that the domestic labour market is not deep enough to equip local providers with the skilled workforce they require. The connected impact is delayed hospital discharge and residents using increasing amounts of primary and acute care through lack of social care provision. Skills for Care also report that the current average hourly rates for job roles are: - £11.72 across all services - £12.25 for care homes with nursing - £11.38 for residential (non-nursing) care homes - £10.72 for direct care - £10.56 for care worker - £10.32 for support and outreach https://www.skillsforcare.org.uk/Adult-Social-Care-Workforce-Data/Workforce-intelligence/publications/local-information/My-local-area.aspx In contrast, the National Minimum Wage will rise by 9.8% in April 2024 to £11.44 for those aged 21 and over. https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates In their latest release (20 December 2023), the Office for National Statistics report that although the Consumer Price Index 12-month rate has fallen, business suppliers are continuing to raise prices to make up for losses over the year. The current change over 12 months is 4.2%; a significant inflation rate to absorb. https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices For individual providers and specific parts of the sector: - Overall price of food and non-alcoholic beverages rose by around 27% over the two years between November 2021 and November 2023. This compares with a rise of around 9% over the ten years between November 2011 and November 2021: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#timeseries - Motor fuel prices fell 10.6% in the year to November 2023. Average fuel prices in UK are at 146.69p, but remain at an historic high: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/fuel-watch/ We also refer to the Local Government Finance Policy Statement 2024-2025, which states that: - Local authorities will see an increase in baseline funding levels (BFLs) and compensation grant as if both business rating multipliers had increased by CPI. - The Autumn Statement said that the small business rating multiplier will be frozen at 49.9p, and the standard business rating multiplier will increase to 54.6p in line with September 2022 to September 2023 change in CPI. Coupled with Council Tax Referendum Principles of a core council tax referendum limit for top tier local authorities of up to 3%, and an an adult social care precept of 2% for all authorities responsible for adult social care services, we believe there is adequate funding to support providers with at least an inflation equalling increase. Including funding announced at the 2022 Autumn Statement, additional grant resources for social care in 2024-25 will therefore be: - an additional £692 million will be distributed to local authorities through the Social Care Grant for adult and children’s social care. This will bring the overall size of the Social Care Grant to £4,544 million. - an additional £200 million will be distributed in 2024 to 2025 through the Discharge Fund to support timely and safe discharge from hospital into the community by reducing the number of people delayed in hospital awaiting social care bringing the overall size of the local authority component of the Discharge Fund to £500 million. The Discharge Fund will be in addition to the existing improved Better Care Fund, for which the quantum of £2,140 million and the distribution will remain the same as in 2023-24. £1,050 million in 2024 to 2025 will be distributed for adult social care through the Market Sustainability and Improvement Fund (MSIF), which continues to include £162 million per year of Fair Cost of Care funding. It also includes £205 million MSIF - Workforce Funding, a 2-year fund announced in July 2023 which will be rolled into the existing MSIF. In total, the combined MSIF and MSIF Workforce Fund are worth £123 million more than in 2023 to 2024. We ask that the Council respects contractual arrangements for inflationary uplifts. We also ask that that the funding available is used to support the adult social care market recognising that there are corners of provision which are more vulnerable than others. In particular we have concerns about supported living services and day time support services, which require particular attention and financial support. on Linkedin Email This is an Uplift 2024-25 Consultation reply from Oxfordshire Association of Care Providers The adult social care sector remains under huge pressure to deliver essential services in County. Whilst the opportunity for international recruitment has assuaged workforce challenges to an extent, the incoming tightening of immigration rules by Government and the current tightened evidence requirements by UKVI mean that it will likely be harder to recruit workforce from overseas in the future. Skills for Care report that at least 2,700 social care posts are vacant in Oxfordshire (likely to be an underestimate), indicating that the domestic labour market is not deep enough to equip local providers with the skilled workforce they require. The connected impact is delayed hospital discharge and residents using increasing amounts of primary and acute care through lack of social care provision. Skills for Care also report that the current average hourly rates for job roles are: - £11.72 across all services - £12.25 for care homes with nursing - £11.38 for residential (non-nursing) care homes - £10.72 for direct care - £10.56 for care worker - £10.32 for support and outreach https://www.skillsforcare.org.uk/Adult-Social-Care-Workforce-Data/Workforce-intelligence/publications/local-information/My-local-area.aspx In contrast, the National Minimum Wage will rise by 9.8% in April 2024 to £11.44 for those aged 21 and over. https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates In their latest release (20 December 2023), the Office for National Statistics report that although the Consumer Price Index 12-month rate has fallen, business suppliers are continuing to raise prices to make up for losses over the year. The current change over 12 months is 4.2%; a significant inflation rate to absorb. https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices For individual providers and specific parts of the sector: - Overall price of food and non-alcoholic beverages rose by around 27% over the two years between November 2021 and November 2023. This compares with a rise of around 9% over the ten years between November 2011 and November 2021: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#timeseries - Motor fuel prices fell 10.6% in the year to November 2023. Average fuel prices in UK are at 146.69p, but remain at an historic high: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/fuel-watch/ We also refer to the Local Government Finance Policy Statement 2024-2025, which states that: - Local authorities will see an increase in baseline funding levels (BFLs) and compensation grant as if both business rating multipliers had increased by CPI. - The Autumn Statement said that the small business rating multiplier will be frozen at 49.9p, and the standard business rating multiplier will increase to 54.6p in line with September 2022 to September 2023 change in CPI. Coupled with Council Tax Referendum Principles of a core council tax referendum limit for top tier local authorities of up to 3%, and an an adult social care precept of 2% for all authorities responsible for adult social care services, we believe there is adequate funding to support providers with at least an inflation equalling increase. Including funding announced at the 2022 Autumn Statement, additional grant resources for social care in 2024-25 will therefore be: - an additional £692 million will be distributed to local authorities through the Social Care Grant for adult and children’s social care. This will bring the overall size of the Social Care Grant to £4,544 million. - an additional £200 million will be distributed in 2024 to 2025 through the Discharge Fund to support timely and safe discharge from hospital into the community by reducing the number of people delayed in hospital awaiting social care bringing the overall size of the local authority component of the Discharge Fund to £500 million. The Discharge Fund will be in addition to the existing improved Better Care Fund, for which the quantum of £2,140 million and the distribution will remain the same as in 2023-24. £1,050 million in 2024 to 2025 will be distributed for adult social care through the Market Sustainability and Improvement Fund (MSIF), which continues to include £162 million per year of Fair Cost of Care funding. It also includes £205 million MSIF - Workforce Funding, a 2-year fund announced in July 2023 which will be rolled into the existing MSIF. In total, the combined MSIF and MSIF Workforce Fund are worth £123 million more than in 2023 to 2024. We ask that the Council respects contractual arrangements for inflationary uplifts. We also ask that that the funding available is used to support the adult social care market recognising that there are corners of provision which are more vulnerable than others. In particular we have concerns about supported living services and day time support services, which require particular attention and financial support. link

    This is an Uplift 2024-25 Consultation reply from Oxfordshire Association of Care Providers The adult social care sector remains under huge pressure to deliver essential services in County. Whilst the opportunity for international recruitment has assuaged workforce challenges to an extent, the incoming tightening of immigration rules by Government and the current tightened evidence requirements by UKVI mean that it will likely be harder to recruit workforce from overseas in the future. Skills for Care report that at least 2,700 social care posts are vacant in Oxfordshire (likely to be an underestimate), indicating that the domestic labour market is not deep enough to equip local providers with the skilled workforce they require. The connected impact is delayed hospital discharge and residents using increasing amounts of primary and acute care through lack of social care provision. Skills for Care also report that the current average hourly rates for job roles are: - £11.72 across all services - £12.25 for care homes with nursing - £11.38 for residential (non-nursing) care homes - £10.72 for direct care - £10.56 for care worker - £10.32 for support and outreach https://www.skillsforcare.org.uk/Adult-Social-Care-Workforce-Data/Workforce-intelligence/publications/local-information/My-local-area.aspx In contrast, the National Minimum Wage will rise by 9.8% in April 2024 to £11.44 for those aged 21 and over. https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates In their latest release (20 December 2023), the Office for National Statistics report that although the Consumer Price Index 12-month rate has fallen, business suppliers are continuing to raise prices to make up for losses over the year. The current change over 12 months is 4.2%; a significant inflation rate to absorb. https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices For individual providers and specific parts of the sector: - Overall price of food and non-alcoholic beverages rose by around 27% over the two years between November 2021 and November 2023. This compares with a rise of around 9% over the ten years between November 2011 and November 2021: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#timeseries - Motor fuel prices fell 10.6% in the year to November 2023. Average fuel prices in UK are at 146.69p, but remain at an historic high: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/fuel-watch/ We also refer to the Local Government Finance Policy Statement 2024-2025, which states that: - Local authorities will see an increase in baseline funding levels (BFLs) and compensation grant as if both business rating multipliers had increased by CPI. - The Autumn Statement said that the small business rating multiplier will be frozen at 49.9p, and the standard business rating multiplier will increase to 54.6p in line with September 2022 to September 2023 change in CPI. Coupled with Council Tax Referendum Principles of a core council tax referendum limit for top tier local authorities of up to 3%, and an an adult social care precept of 2% for all authorities responsible for adult social care services, we believe there is adequate funding to support providers with at least an inflation equalling increase. Including funding announced at the 2022 Autumn Statement, additional grant resources for social care in 2024-25 will therefore be: - an additional £692 million will be distributed to local authorities through the Social Care Grant for adult and children’s social care. This will bring the overall size of the Social Care Grant to £4,544 million. - an additional £200 million will be distributed in 2024 to 2025 through the Discharge Fund to support timely and safe discharge from hospital into the community by reducing the number of people delayed in hospital awaiting social care bringing the overall size of the local authority component of the Discharge Fund to £500 million. The Discharge Fund will be in addition to the existing improved Better Care Fund, for which the quantum of £2,140 million and the distribution will remain the same as in 2023-24. £1,050 million in 2024 to 2025 will be distributed for adult social care through the Market Sustainability and Improvement Fund (MSIF), which continues to include £162 million per year of Fair Cost of Care funding. It also includes £205 million MSIF - Workforce Funding, a 2-year fund announced in July 2023 which will be rolled into the existing MSIF. In total, the combined MSIF and MSIF Workforce Fund are worth £123 million more than in 2023 to 2024. We ask that the Council respects contractual arrangements for inflationary uplifts. We also ask that that the funding available is used to support the adult social care market recognising that there are corners of provision which are more vulnerable than others. In particular we have concerns about supported living services and day time support services, which require particular attention and financial support.

    OACP asked about 1 year ago

    Thank you for this detailed input. We will include this as part of our fee uplift survey responses. 

  • Share Technical issue Please can you adjust the dialogue box that allows for these questions to be wider than a visible three lines. Ideally it should be draggable to enlarge the box as required. OACP on Facebook Share Technical issue Please can you adjust the dialogue box that allows for these questions to be wider than a visible three lines. Ideally it should be draggable to enlarge the box as required. OACP on Twitter Share Technical issue Please can you adjust the dialogue box that allows for these questions to be wider than a visible three lines. Ideally it should be draggable to enlarge the box as required. OACP on Linkedin Email Technical issue Please can you adjust the dialogue box that allows for these questions to be wider than a visible three lines. Ideally it should be draggable to enlarge the box as required. OACP link

    Technical issue Please can you adjust the dialogue box that allows for these questions to be wider than a visible three lines. Ideally it should be draggable to enlarge the box as required. OACP

    OACP asked about 1 year ago

    Thank you for this feedback. Can you perhaps include a screenshot so that we can ask the developer for a solution please? 

Page last updated: 13 Dec 2024, 09:12 AM